Live Dialogue with Zepp-LaRouche

The Great Crossroad of 2024

This is an edited transcript of Harley Schlanger’s weekly dialogue with Helga Zepp-LaRouche, founder and leader of the Schiller Institute, on Wednesday, Jan. 3, 2024. Subheads and embedded links have been added. The video of this dialogue is available here.

Harley Schlanger: Hello and welcome to our weekly dialogue with Helga Zepp-LaRouche, founder and chairwoman of the Schiller Institute. I’m your host, Harley Schlanger, and today is Wednesday, January 3, 2024. If you have questions or comments, you can send them to questions@schillerinstitute.org.

Let me begin by wishing you, Helga, and all our viewers a Happy New Year. You’ve been issuing some statements recently in which you indicate that you believe we have the potential to make this year the end of six centuries of the age of colonialism, creating a new, just development architecture. And this is clearly the intent of the actions of leaders of the Global South, the BRICS, and so on, but it’s also clear that the global financial oligarchs are committed to war, and whatever disruption necessary to stop this process. And we see that in Ukraine, in Gaza and elsewhere.

The Source of My Optimism

I’ve had a number of people write to me recently about how your optimism in the face of these horrors has been an inspiration, so let me start with a question about that, because several have requested that I ask you: How do you maintain optimism, knowing as you do that the world appears to be headed for destruction?

Helga Zepp-LaRouche: First of all, let me also wish all of you a happy New Year. I think there is reason for optimism, which has a lot to do with the forecast my late husband Lyndon LaRouche made in August 1971, when [President Richard] Nixon took the dollar off the gold standard, and replaced the fixed exchange rates with the floating ones. He made the prognosis that if the West would stay on that trajectory, it would lead to a new collapse of the system, a new depression, a new fascism, a new danger of war—or, there would be a completely different economic system. That was 1971.That was 53 years ago.

And in a certain sense, my entire political life in this movement was really guided by not only that one prognosis, but many other analyses of my late husband, and what the organization contributed in all of these decades. And in a certain sense, when you have the scientific reasons why a certain system does not function and why you have to replace it with a different system which is based on completely different principles, namely the principles of physical economy, and not on profit maximization for a few, then in a sense, you don’t look at each event every day and say, “This is reality,” but you look at the longer arc of history. From that standpoint, not only has the analysis of my late husband been proven to be absolutely on the mark, but also his ideas and our ideas in terms of what should replace it, are becoming more influential all the time.

It has, unfortunately, not been picked up by the West, because the United States clearly rejected the views of Lyndon LaRouche, and even prosecuted him in ways which [former U.S. Attorney General] Ramsey Clark called without precedent and example. Western Europe, being completely under the control of mainly the Anglosphere, also has not picked up on his proposals.

But what you can see right now—and this was the view also shared by the Russian economist Sergei Glazyev—is that if you look at the countries in the Global South that are prospering and are doing well, there you find the influence of the ideas of LaRouche very, very strongly—in policies of China, policies of India, policies of other countries of the Global South. And given the fact that 2023 was a year in which a lot of things went awfully wrong, but 2024 promises to be a year in which many countries are still at war, like Ukraine and Gaza, and there are many conflicts around the world—so the world is not suddenly becoming a paradise—but one can see very clearly that the voice and the political influence of the Global South is becoming much stronger.

It is, among other things, underlined by the fact that Russia took over the chairmanship of the BRICS-Plus two days ago on Jan. 1. There are articles even in the Western media—they hate to admit it but they can’t get around it—saying that all the calculations of the West to defeat Russia (or as German Foreign Minister [Annalena] Baerbock always said, “ruin Russia”) have completely failed! Because it was based on some ideological wishful thinking, not on the realities of the situation. Russia has emerged as a strong state. It has lots of friends in the Global South and the BRICS process is a very promising one, giving hope, as you said.

Six hundred years of colonialism are really ending, and they will be replaced with a system which respects the sovereignty of each and all of the members of this new majority, which has a policy of non-interference in the internal affairs [of other countries]; respects their different social systems, but especially proceeds with the idea that world politics is not a zero-sum game; but that you can work in the interest of the other and vice versa, and that that means the common good of everybody is progressing.

So I think we are in a very, very important change in history, and I think it is very important that the citizens of the North, or the West, the United States, Europe, not look at the Global Majority as something to be feared or contained, or as a new enemy, because they’re not! I think if our political life would be a little bit more rational and healthy, everybody should be completely overjoyed that now, finally, the countries that represent the vast majority of the human species are on a course to become middle-level income countries; that extreme poverty will be eliminated; and that people of the Global Majority have the hope to have a fulfilled life, as previously only the people in the United States and Europe had, when they were still following sane principles, that is.

So, objectively there is actually reason for optimism. Naturally, we should not be blind to the danger of war, but I’m not so convinced that the strategists of the neoliberal order are so clever, because if you look at their success rate—hmm—it was not so great: Afghanistan, a total failure; Ukraine now looks no different from the outcome of Afghanistan, and the poor Ukrainian people slowly recognize that they may have been used as pawns in a much larger strategic game against Russia, and implicitly against China.

The people in the countries of the Global South are also not identical with their governments. If you look, for example, at the polls, how much support do the governments of the G7 have? In Germany, I think the so-called “traffic light” coalition government [referring to the SPD, FDP and Greens] is completely down in the polls: In Saxony, for example, where there will be elections this year, the FDP is at 1%—they’re still part of the coalition government, but they’re in that state at only 1%. The Social Democracy is at 3%—that means they wouldn’t even get into Parliament anymore!

The citizens of the countries of the Global North are really looking for an alternative. Once they recognize very clearly what is the intention of the countries of the Global South, that it’s not against them, and not against the North, but against certain relics of colonialism which were carried out by these institutions, I think that the road can be made clear for a cooperation between the people of the Global North and those of the Global South.

So, taking everything into account, I think there is absolutely hope that we will get a better future.

How To Organize

Schlanger: Not surprisingly a number of the questions we’re getting in are about how to organize people, to understand this.

Here’s a question from Thomas, a regular correspondent of ours: “The majority in the West, in agreement with you, are in despair over the injustices committed by the West, but fearful of losing their jobs if they speak out. How should we approach this?”

Zepp-LaRouche: You have to be a little bit attentive; don’t be careless. The problem you are addressing is a real one: We have experienced that many times. Social media is very helpful; there are many groups you can join. Become active.

Right now, for example, I can only speak about Germany. On Jan. 8 you will have massive demonstrations in many cities, and on a federal level, where the farmers, the truck drivers, locomotive drivers, and many others from transport are planning a massive protest against the present cuts of the government in all of these sectors. So, I would suggest that if you’re in Germany, join that; if you are elsewhere, try to make contact with people who are concerned that government policy must be put on a better course.

People are afraid, sometimes, of the wrong things: What you should really be afraid of, is not succeeding in changing the policy. Harley, you mentioned earlier that there is a war drive: French President Macron in his New Year’s speech—and he’s not even the worst of them—said that there must be a militarization of Europe, that Europe must have a military policy and budget. They’re all freaked out about the possibility that Donald Trump may become President, again, in 2024, and that under those conditions, Europe should be fortified and take care of its own defense. Well, that is still the old axiom!

If we would say, “We join with Russia, China, the Global Majority in building this new economic system,” then we don’t have an enemy. It’s just a completely wrong idea! And many other countries. In Sweden, people are saying that there will be war with Russia on Swedish territory in a few years! In Finland, they’re even saying it will be in two years! Germany’s Defense Minister [Boris] Pistorius is saying that Germany must become “war ready”! This is really very bad! This effort to militarize our economies is very dangerous and we should oppose it. That’s what you should be afraid of. So, I think it’s better to take a certain risk by becoming politically active, than sitting there and doing nothing, and then ending up in a situation which could really be a complete catastrophe.

So, I can only say, what Friedrich Schiller said in his Aesthetic Letters: When, in Greek mythology, the goddess Athena came to Earth, she was fully armed with wisdom, and she said, “Dare to be wise,” and then act on that basis. And with that courage you can move a lot.

Awakening the International Conscience

Schlanger: We have a poem which I’ll forward to you, written by the late Pope John Paul II, about what someone can do who works for the war machine, who doesn’t necessarily feel responsible for the wars, but realizes that they are. It was sent to us by a retired priest, Bob Cushing, who’s a leader in the Association of U.S. Catholic Priests. And here’s what he writes about it:

“It’s obviously not enough to continue to support the present propaganda of silence, that is enabling the genocide in Gaza to continue. People need to be shaken to their roots, and awakened! Watching the news doesn’t help much, but rather enables people to quietly acquiesce.

“What can we do, to awaken one another and our international conscience, to address the current moment?”

Zepp-LaRouche: Two things come to mind right away. One, there was an incredible sermon by the pastor of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Bethlehem. His name is Rev. Dr. Munther Isaac. The whole church service is on video and I would suggest that all of you who are watching this webcast, circulate this video widely. Because it is absolutely honest, it is heart-breaking. You cannot be but moved by what this pastor and others who are also speaking, are saying. He accuses the world of being silent, he accuses the churches of being silent in the face of what’s happening in Gaza. I would suggest that organizing with this video is definitely something everybody can do.

And the other thing: on January 11 and 12, that is, the end of next week, there will be the beginning of the International Court of Justice responding to the suit by the South African government against the State of Israel for committing genocide in Gaza. And since both South Africa and Israel have signed the Convention on Genocide, it will be dealt with. A speaker of the Israeli government has already said that they will answer it—they naturally totally dismiss it, and say the [charges] are ridiculous, absurd, and they will tell their story.

But apart from that, given the fact that whole world has been watching what is going on in Gaza, I don’t think this can be suppressed; it will be a very useful flank for more people in the West in particular, where the media have been extremely one-sided, to find out what is actually going on. And I think it’s quite interesting, that it is South Africa, a member of the BRICS, which takes the moral responsibility to bring this case to the International Court of Justice, and it’s not coming from the West. That shows you how moral leadership has shifted already. Spreading around what comes out of that event next week will be very useful.

So, there are many things one can do. You can also join the International Peace Coalition, which we are trying to build into an international peace movement, trying to overcome the separation of the many groups that are all fighting individually, but are not united. There is right now the possibility to really put the solutions on the table. I mentioned already the social ferment.

Retooling the Military-Industrial Complex

We are circulating and working in many countries on drafting an act, legislation, to retool the military-industrial complex into civilian production for the common good. [See elsewhere in this issue—ed.] You can join that campaign, get this legislation to congressmen, to parliamentarians, to other elected officials, and help us to build the pressure: The United States alone, already spent in the 15 years of the new millennium, $17 trillion on military spending, and you can be sure that all of that, from the standpoint of the real economy, is a complete waste, because all it does is destroy assets which could be used for infrastructure, schools, hospitals, and all kinds of other things, and it just uses the money for destructive purposes. So the retooling of that, or a very large part of it, I would say—you know, you need a certain minimum maybe to keep up some defensive measures each country should have in this present period—but I would say, 90% of it is completely superfluous and only geared toward profit-making, and that should be retooled. So, join that effort: That would be very important as well.

European Farmers Protest Budget Cuts

Schlanger: You mentioned the farm demonstrations this coming week in Germany. We received a comment from a Nigerian-American contact who wrote that in Nigeria, they’re watching very closely the German farm protests. I think this is something which is catching on throughout Europe.

Now, Helga, here’s a question from a county commissioner in Minnesota, an old friend of ours, Bob Van Hee, who reports what you had said earlier about Lyn’s writings and work over the many, many years. He writes that “most of the congressmen and senators appear to be brain-dead,” but “we have all this fantastic information” from the 35–40 years that he’s been active, “a huge collection of all this that we put out, should be made available to the public. Is there any way to get all of this precious information out to the citizenry anywhere and everywhere?”

The LaRouche Legacy Foundation and Online Library

Zepp-LaRouche: You mean Lyn’s writings? Is that the question?

Oh, yeah! I have very good news: First of all, we have set up the LaRouche Legacy Foundation. We have the LaRouche Library. You should visit those websites. We are uploading more and more articles and videos, and it’s growing very nicely. And we are about to put out Volume II of LaRouche’s writings. The first one was more on general writings on economics.Volume II is very much focussed on culture, on music, on poetry, on other writings. I can only suggest that you help us make that library known, because this is a tremendous resource for professors, for students, for elected officials and anybody else who wants to really find solutions. You will find that the works of Lyndon LaRouche are an unbelievable treasure.

Preparing to Steal $300 Billion of Russian State Assets

Schlanger: Here’s a question from someone who is watching the U.S. election campaign very closely, and the fact that the Congress is now completely dug in on not giving more funds to Ukraine. But he points out that he heard there’s an attempt to steal the $300 billion seized from Russia, that is, Russian assets, and give that to the Ukrainians. And he asks: “Can they get away with that? Does this mean that other countries in Europe could order their banks to give the Russian money to Ukraine?”

Zepp-LaRouche: Well, I’m afraid that that may happen, given the fact that the present governments of Europe are pretty spineless for the most part. If you look, for example, what the German government reaction was to the sabotage of the Nord Stream gas pipelines from Russia to Germany, which continues ruining the German economy to the present minute, and no reaction by Chancellor [Olaf] Scholz. That’s really pitiful, if you ask me! So, I would not expect much in terms of resistance to that. I hope I’m wrong, but that’s my view.

I just was reading earlier today, a statement by a top Russian analyst, who said that the Russians have been able to fully compensate for the loss of that $300 billion, simply by the income from increased exportation of oil. So, they have completely been able to compensate because the idea of sanctions has completely failed. Russia has just reoriented toward Asia, toward the East and the South, and they’re doing economically much better in growth rates, than the entire West combined! So that policy is another example of a boomerang and blowback, and miscalculation on the part of the West. But I think it’s also extremely counter-productive for anybody who would want to pursue American interests.

What it has triggered is an escalation of the de-dollarization, because all the countries of the Global South look at that and say: “Oh, $300 billion of Russia’s has been confiscated; $9 billion of Afghanistan’s has been confiscated. Well, maybe U.S. banks and European banks aren’t so safe—maybe I shouldn’t have my money in dollars.” So a tremendous process of de-dollarization has been accelerated, a lot of trade in the local currencies has replaced trade in dollars; and I would not be surprised that if in the course of this present year, the trade in currencies other than the dollar will increase, but also a new, international reserve currency could come into being, or at least making tremendous progress.

It was, again, a very stupid policy, for the United States and the West to stop respecting international law, and this confiscation is a case of that, they should not be surprised if people draw their conclusions and say this is too dangerous to deal with. The Western establishments should really think that it may be wiser to adjust some policies in the direction we are talking about here, rather than continuing on the course of confrontation.

Lawlessness and International Law

Schlanger: A similar question comes from New Zealand: “I’ve been hearing about the Ukrainian attack on Russia in the last days, and also the Israeli assassination of a Hamas leader in Beirut. I’m very worried that these will lead to an escalation. Whatever happened to the idea of international law?”

And on that, it’s also noteworthy, we have preliminary reports of an attack on a memorial at a cemetery in Iran today, with a large number of casualties. So, do you have any comments on that, Helga? It does appear that it reflects the all-out desperation of the establishment in the West.

Zepp-LaRouche: Yes, it does. In the case of the Ukraine war, it is now not something to be debated any more, but in spite of the established fact that the famous Ukrainian counteroffensive completely failed, an idea, mainly coming also from the British government, is that the Ukrainian war should continue for at least one more year—but with whom?

There are rumors—and it’s very difficult to verify and confirm all this news, because it’s coming from a war area and there is no independent confirmation—that there was even a bank run in Ukraine, when the news circulated that there would be another callup of 500,000 people as a reserve. Now, they have already brought the draft eligible age up to the upper limit of the pension age. These are people no longer capable of fighting any more. I mean, this is completely gone, and the more quickly one moves to a diplomatic solution, the better it will be for the people of Ukraine. The fact that [then UK Prime Minister] Boris Johnson sabotaged the potential for ending the war in March–April 2022, may be [the basis for] a case at the International Court of Justice, as well: Because if you are preventing the peaceful end to a war, that should be treated as a war crime.

I think the danger is indeed what Gen. Harald Kujat (ret.) already wrote in an article which he published with three other people—[Dr. h. c.] Horst Teltschik, [Professor Dr.] Hajo Funke, and [Professor Dr.] Peter Brandt—that NATO is in front of the decision to either go for a diplomatic solution immediately, or that the danger is of an escalation. Escalation right now is, for sure, not to be feared from Russia, because they’re doing quite well under the horrible circumstances of a war; but there is the danger of an escalation. So that is something one should be absolutely clear about, and the same goes for Southwest Asia, with the assassination of this Hamas leader in Lebanon.

I think [Hezbollah Secretary-General Hassan] Nasrallah is going to give a speech today, maybe as we’re speaking now. It is expected that he will not go for a widening of the war. I don’t know any details of who is a potential culprit—but there is a clear effort to widen the war, to expand it to Hezbollah, to Lebanon, to Iran; but the situation in Israel itself is also very much in flux, because the Supreme Court ruled that the decision by [Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu to make the Supreme Court defunct is not accepted.

I think this is giving a lot of backing to the many people who were demonstrating against Netanyahu in the month before the Hamas attack on Oct. 7, people who had protested against the Netanyahu’s judicial reform—and so one can only hope for that opposition from inside Israel. Netanyahu has about 15% support left, which is not exactly a lot.

Out with Netanyahu, In with LaRouche’s Oasis Plan!

Schlanger: The final question I have, came in on this very topic, referring to the Israeli Supreme Court decision—that this might trigger a renewed escalation against Netanyahu: “Couldn’t Netanyahu’s opponents in Israel bring down his government? And if so, is it possible that the tendency that was behind [former Prime Minister Yitzhak] Rabin and the idea of seeking a comprehensive peace settlement with the Palestinians, is that something that is finished by this war, or is that something which could re-emerge?”

Zepp-LaRouche: Well, one would hope that it would re-emerge. The situation in Gaza—and by now it’s an open admission that the aim of the whole thing was to have ethnic cleansing, to remove all the Palestinians from Gaza, from the West Bank, force them into other countries, into Egypt, into Jordan—which these countries refuse—has become absolutely known to the world. I think a very fundamental change in the entire policy of Southwest Asia is required.

And that is why we have been pushing so much on the idea of the Oasis Plan, the economic development plan for Southwest Asia proposed by my late husband in 1975, which is still absolutely valid; that you need to have a completely different approach; that there must be a two-state solution. I personally think that without a two-state solution, you cannot undo the horrible ruins and scars which have been caused by all of this; but you need to change the environment, you have to have economic prosperity for everybody.

The region is mainly desert; there is a lack of water. If you would have the kind of proposals for building canals between the Mediterranean and the Red Sea and the Dead Sea, you could use these canals for massive desalination of water, have agriculture, reforestation, build infrastructure, build new cities, and turn the whole region into what it historically was, namely, the hub of the ancient Silk Road and now, with the New Silk Road and the Belt and Road Initiative.

Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Iran, as of two days ago, have become full-fledged members of the BRICS-Plus. And therefore, the potential that the BRI is extended into all of Southwest Asia, is a very realistic perspective; and you could bring Türkiye into this, which wants to be part of the New Silk Road. You could start to reconstruct Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan. And if you had a development plan for the entire area, practically from India to the Mediterranean, from China to the tip of Yemen—in other words all of Southwest Asia being an integrated part of economic development of the Belt and Road Initiative—you could instill hope in all the different populations.

The joint development perspective is the only way you could have hope for peace in the future, and that’s why we should push this Oasis Plan as a part of a general Mideast peace initiative, to settle this conflict for good.

Schlanger: Helga, I have one final note that came in from Diana, who’s a loyal fan of ours from Canada: She wishes you a Happy New Year: “If Britain and the U.S. want the Ukraine war to go another year,” her view is, they’re going to have to send their own soldiers, because Ukraine has already lost so many. And “for what?” She agrees with you: This could have been settled early on.

With that, Helga, we’ve covered a lot today. People can go to our website. There’s Helga’s Christmas Message. We’ll be putting out more on the retooling of the military-industrial-financial complex. Keep on top of what’s going on in your community! There are demonstrations, there are people moving to bring the truth to light.

Thanks again, Helga, for joining us today, and we’ll see you again next week!

Zepp-LaRouche: Yes, and join the Schiller Institute! That’s the best way to get politically active.