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LAROUCHE ON THE JEFF RENSE SHOW:

THIS CRISIS GIVES US A GREAT OPPORTUNITY — TO TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK

Lyndon LaRouche gave the following interview on Aug. 4, to Jeff Rense, whose program is broadcast nationwide on the GCN radio network, and worldwide, on the Internet at www.rense.com.

JEFF RENSE: Welcome back. The heat continues—and there's a lot of heat in this world that's not measured by thermometers and temperature gauges.

Lyndon LaRouche has warned everyone—he did so on July 27—about Dick Cheney's "Guns of August" mentality, which he says, threatens the world. Let me read the first paragraph from the statement from Lyndon LaRouche, from Executive Intelligence Review News Service. Lyndon said, that on Wednesday, July 27, in his statement, he issued an international alert covering the period of August 2005, which is the "likely time frame," he says, "for Vice President Dick Cheney, with the full collusion of the circles of British Prime Minister Tony Blair, to unleash the recently exposed plans to stage a pre-emptive tactical nuclear strike against Iran. The danger of such a mad Hitler-in-the-bunker action from the Cheney circles would be even further heightened were the United States Congress to stick with its present schedule and go into recess on July 30 until Sept. 4. With Congress out of Washington, the Cheney-led White House would almost certainly unleash a 'Guns of August' attack on Iran." This said by Lyndon LaRouche on July 27.

It is now Aug. 4. We wanted Lyndon to come on and talk about this. And we have asked him, he has said "Okay," and he is standing by.

Hello Lyndon, welcome back to the program.

LYNDON LAROUCHE: How do you do?

Q: Gee! You sound better than I do!

LAROUCHE: Well, I'm in fair shape for an old geezer.

Q: No, I mean the ISDN line. I mean, you always sound good, but wow—what presence! You could have been a politician, or an economist! [they laugh]

LAROUCHE: Well, I did sort of pass through those things.

Q: You did, indeed. And you still are.

Listen, for those of you who don't know much about Lyndon LaRouche, I would urge you to familiarize yourself with his brilliant work over the years, and the EIR, the Executive Intelligence Review. We're going to give you some numbers later on to get you some free information. Former Presidential candidate, of course, Lyndon has acquired, earned, and deservedly so, a tremendous worldwide respect. Here in America, he is not as well known, as he is, for example, in Europe, in the Middle East, in India, and in other places. He's quite an interesting and fascinating American patriot. He is a great mind, when it comes to the economy, but he is also a visionary, in the best geopolitical sense of that term, when it comes to looking at the world.

Tell us why these madmen in Washington may use August—I just hinted at that—but tell us more, Lyndon.

LAROUCHE: Well, to get the background, I had this information coming at me earlier, from sources, intelligence sources, leading people, and also checked it with people in the Senate, and other people around the Congress.

Q: What did you get back?

LAROUCHE: There was no question—that this is a "go." This is what the operation is. And I said, "Well, if you're going to run an operation like this, then you're have to run it, pretty much, while the Congress is off-watch. Now, the Senate is not going to go away. The Senate could come back in, in 24 hours, could be back in business. But the opportune time for someone like Cheney, or Cheney's mentality—remember, these are a tiny minority, of our intelligence and military community who are involved in this thing. Most people in the military, top-level professionals. are afraid of this thing. They know it's insane. But you have a President who is going back to Crawford Ranch to drive his tricycle, and the Vice President, who is a sociopath, frankly—that's not an slander, that's true!

Q: What term—you had a great term for these people. What did you—"the beast-men," "the beast-men"?

LAROUCHE: Yeah, they are! Their sense is, their attitude is—. Well, this is Cheney. Everybody knows that, who knows Cheney in Washington, everyone says the same thing. The guy comes on like a beast. He snarls, he's like a caveman with a club, attacking a child. He's a bully. He's a brute.

Q: He's got nothing to lose. He's on borrowed time, with that heart of his, too. So, he's got no accountability, right?

LAROUCHE: I don't know where his sense of identity is, exactly. It's somewhere I don't want to be!

Q: I hear you!

LAROUCHE: But, the unfortunate thing is, he is the Vice President. He is also a tool, like a Mafia hit man, who works for people like George Shultz and others who put him in the position he's in now.

So, this crew around him, which includes Tony Blair and his crowd, pulled off the Iraq war. Now, there was no reason to go into Iraq. And now, anyone who knows about it, says, "This was terrible. This was stupid, it was wrong, it was criminal."

Q: And by the way, the word that I'm getting now, from men who have been there, and women, is that virtually all Americans are on steroids and other things. They are scared—and understandably so—they know what's being done to them; and sure, they volunteered for it, but that doesn't change the situation.

LAROUCHE: Well, if you're in the National Guard and you sign up for weekend service, that does not mean you were—you belong over there!

So, this is a horror-show. The Afghanistan thing is also a horror-show. It's less conspicuous. It's this big drug-running operation in a failed state—that's no good for us, either.

So, in this kind of situation, you have people who are faced with the greatest financial crisis in modern history, which is coming down fast. It's something we could deal with, but they don't like the answers, they don't like the solution. So therefore, they're saying, there's only one they could do, and that's get a dictatorship. Now, we saw the attempt to do that, with 9/11: That it was obvious to me, that that was going to happen, that we were going into a severe crisis that the Bush-Cheney crowd could not handle, and therefore, the temptation would be, to have an incident, or to exploit an incident, in order to get dictatorial powers, which is what they did with Patriot I, Patriot II. Exactly that.

Now, again, you have the housing crisis, which is about the blow, especially in—well, Australia/New Zealand also, but especially in the United Kingdom and the United States. I mean, you have houses which could go down to $200,000, which are now mortgaged at $1 million, that kind of thing. It's in various parts of the United States.

Q: Sure.

LAROUCHE: The hot, mortgage-bubble speculation is the biggest inflationary factor, of the type that people are right up against, in modern times.

So, the whole thing can come down. All these things can be handled. But!—

Q: By the way, when that happens, it will wipe out what's left of most of the American middle class.

LAROUCHE: It may not. See, the point is, that's what comes up. Because we are a special kind of nation. Other nations have many of the qualities we have. But our nation has very specific, in the powers of the government, we are committed above all to protect the general welfare. It's what Franklin Roosevelt did, within the limits of what he could do. And it's what any decent government of the United States would do. It's what most people in Washington, really, would do—most people in the Senate, for example, would think that way. When you've got a banking crisis, you're not going to let the country get shut down. You're not going to let people get thrown out of their houses en masse. You're going to reorganize the thing, so that people can get on with their lives, and rebuild the economy, as we did under Roosevelt.

But, there are some people who don't want to do that—

Q: There're a lot of people who don't want to do that, and they happen to be in control of this country right now.

LAROUCHE: More or less—but not as much as most people think. Because people in the Senate, for example, that I deal with, and I could say the majority—the overwhelming majority of Democrats in the Senate, a great number of Republicans in the Senate—they're human beings! They may have their quirks and their this and their that, but when push comes to shove, they are concerned about the country, and a lot of them—

Q: That's why—excuse me! That's why they read the Patriot Act I, before they passed it; they're concerned about the country?

LAROUCHE: Sure!

Q: They didn't read the damned thing! They just passed it!

LAROUCHE: I know, they were panicked. They're panicked.

Q: No excuses. Sorry! I don't buy it.

LAROUCHE: I know! But, the point is, in my position, I have to say, "Well, I have to pull these guys out of it. So, they do bad things—"

Q: I understand, I understand where you're at. That's okay. That's all right. There're some good people there.

LAROUCHE: And we find more and more, right now. Now, they're not clear yet, on the economic question, in the Senate or anywhere else. They realize there's a problem.

Q: If they had one-tenth of your understanding, Lyndon, they'd be on a path to some kind of resolution here. They don't get it.

LAROUCHE: They're in that direction. But the problem—remember what I'm doing, as opposed to what they're used to: I come from a different generation. I come from the World War II generation. And I think, like we used to think. I think like we thought during the Depression and World War II. I think the way you'd think after living through that experience, and saying, what would we do if we faced another problem like this? Which is what we're facing now.

Q: Those values are, perhaps, reflective of the highest point of achievement of this society of ours. But, they're not current!

LAROUCHE: Ah, but there are people in the Senate, you can get through to the majority of the leaders of the Democratic Party in the Senate; if you get to deal, as I do, directly with the leading Senators, Republican Senators, or many of them: These guys are decent people. They have their shortcomings, but they're decent people. And they are a good Senate. They are good Senators.

The House of Representatives is a different proposition, because people serve less time. It's a two-year term; and the Senate is always in session, it never breaks up; the House of Representatives breaks up every two years, with a new election—complete break-up. There are permanent committees in the House of Representatives, which are very important. And you have people who are staff people, who serve from term, to term, to term. They're really professionals, they know what they're doing.

So, we have a lot of resources there, of a parliamentary nature. We have the best kind of parliamentary government in the world, in terms of our Congress and our Senate. But, there are weaknesses. You need a Presidential leadership. That's what the Founders of the country recognized, and that's where the weakness is.

Q: We have to go to a break. "El Residente" (no "P"), El Residente Bush is now heading off to vacation. Twenty percent of the Bush Presidency has been spent on vacation —an all-time record. Twenty percent, Lyn.

LAROUCHE: I would say 80 to 90%, in point of fact! On vacation, either in Crawford, or on vacation in the White House!

Q: I'll buy it. Stand by, we'll come right back, with Lyndon LaRouche in just a couple minutes. [commercial break]

All right, back with our special first-hour conversation, tonight with Lyndon LaRouche, who's back. Lyndon's July 27 warning, and alert, looms very large. Because the stage is now set. The dog days are here. The weapons systems, of course, are deployed in the Middle East, not only on U.S. battle groups, but certainly on the ground in multiple countries, and Israel has recently purchased a vast armada of bunker-busting munitions systems, of various types and configurations. Lyndon based his assessment of the "Guns of August" attack on Iran on a series of factors, reported to him over recent days, as he said, beginning with the qualified report from a former U.S. intelligence official published in the American Conservative magazine, that Dick Cheney ordered the Strategic Command, STRATCOM, to prepare a contingency plan, or two, for a conventional, and tactical nuclear strike, against hundreds of targets in Iran, in the event of a new 9/11-style attack on the United States.

Are they going to do it, Lyn? Do you really believe it?

LAROUCHE: What happened, was, I was convinced after talking directly and indirectly to people I should talk to about this, that they all wanted somebody to blow the whistle. And by the time we made the round, which was over a period of less than a week, I knew that I was the guy that was designated to blow the whistle.

Q: Well, you're safe. You're not in office—okay, I understand.

LAROUCHE: Well, no. I'm the kind of person that does that sort of thing—

Q: That's right.

LAROUCHE: And I have an outreach into—respect from intelligence services, and other relevant people around the world. And so, it was thought that if I do this, it will command attention from the right people, who will be forced to look at the facts which not merely me, but other people are presenting. And forced to look at the facts, they would have to see I was right.

Now, around the world today, you find that—around influential circles in every part of the world—there's a recognition that I'm right. Now, we don't know, in a case like this, that it's absolutely going to happen in August. We do know that the conditions for it to happen in August are high. The probability that it will happen in August, if it is going to happen, are high. That doesn't mean it couldn't be postponed.

But, in a manner of order like this, you have think like a commander in warfare: You have to be prepared for looking at the earliest likely point of attack, if it's going to occur. You have to be prepared to deal with it, and you have to be prepared to position yourself, so that the enemy who's thinking of making the attack, will pull back.

Now, my major concern, in putting out this statement, was to get our people, that is, people who would agree with the danger, stopping this danger, would start to position themselves, to prevent this order from going out. That's the first objective, and that's what I'm trying to do. And I think it's working. We really have, we have got the attention of people around the world, most notably in Europe, and in the United States.

So, I think I probably have done a good job so far. Have I done enough? I don't know!

Q: Well, you've done all you can do. I don't know what else you can do—

LAROUCHE: Well, I think if they could ignore tomorrow, they will help the process! But it's just a—

Q: You know, the Internet, Lyn, as you know, is absolutely rife with rumors, and predictions, and prophecies, and all kinds of scenarios being pushed around: Aw, they're going to nuke a medium-size American city and they're going to blame it on this and that; or, there'll be a biological attack, and a couple hundred thousand people'll get sick; maybe tens of thousands of die. It'll be blamed on the most convenient enemy, and retribution, of course, will be exact, swift, and unmerciful. So, I don't know if—uh, I don't know! You know, these things seem to happen, when you least expect it?

LAROUCHE: Well, it's not quite that complicated: What you're getting into is an area that people don't yet understand, except a few of us. What we're going into—we're past the time of conventional war. We're past the period, in which even nuclear-armed conventional war is likely—in other words, battles, with battlefields and so forth. Because the response, especially of nations without advanced weapons systems, and parts of the population which don't have massive weapons, the response is what we're seeing in Iraq; what we're seeing in Afghanistan, and elsewhere. It's called by various names: It's called "asymmetric warfare"; it's called "irregular warfare"; it's called "people's war," it's called all different kinds of things.

What's happened is, when you threaten the world, the way that Cheney and company have threatened over a billion Muslims in the world, for example, just as one target, and says "they're all bad, we're going to kill 'em all." Now, Cheney may not have said quite that, but if you put all the people together who are with him who are saying similar things, that's the message that's going out.

Now, if you go to a billion people, and say, "You're our enemy. We're going to kill you all," what are they likely to do? If they don't have superweapons? They're likely to say, "Well, if you're going to kill me anyway, I'm going to fight back now the way I can."

Q: Sure, "I'll take a few of you along with me."

LAROUCHE: Now, that's the situation. Therefore, what do you do about this? What you have to do, is you have to have positive measures go into effect, which create the kind of environment, in which the impulse toward asymmetric or irregular warfare doesn't erupt.

In other words, if the people of the United States know that the government of the United States is good, is good for them, is going to care about them; if they know that the government of the United States is one of the forces in the world which is going to help prevent this kind of persecution of threatened people, they're less like to attack. And the way you prevent war, is by that kind of approach, and that's what we need. That takes the mystery out of the whole business.

Q: I'd love to see it! I'm not seeing it so far. The President is off to ride his bicycle and eat pretzels in Crawford.

LAROUCHE: I think it's a tricycle. I don't think he maintains his balance too well on the bicycle.

Q: He's crashed numerous times, hasn't he? It's odd.

LAROUCHE: No, I say, he's a tricycle man. I can see it in that helicopter beanie on his head, you know? Keeping him stable.

Q: Okay, stand back. In a minute or two, we'll return, with Lyndon LaRouche after, this.

Okay, welcome back. Jeff Rense with Lyndon LaRouche. By the way, I don't know if you saw this or not, Lyn, on the "O'Reilly Factor" last night, Bill O'Reilly was in top form! He had on Pierce O'Donnell, discussing how the Bush Administration is handling the prosecution of prisoners at Guantanamo. The entire mess is playing right into the hands of the terrorists, who now use Guantanamo Bay as a recruiting tool. So, what would Fox's Bill O'Reilly do to fix the problem? "Kill 'em all!" O'Reilly,—here's a quote now—"I don't give them any protection. I don't feel sorry for them. In fact, I probably would have ordered their execution, if I had the power. Kill 'em all, and let Allah sort them out." That's the "O'Reilly Fix." Oh! I mean "Factor."

So, there you go: These are the kinds of people that are holding great sway over American public opinion, believe it or not. You know it. Not the people listening to us, tonight. But there are a lot of people who listen to O'Reilly and like him. [to his engineer] Oh, you do? We have the audio clip. You want to hear it, Lyndon?

LAROUCHE: I can hear it, fine.

Q: Yeah, if you got it, let's play it. This is in the so-called mainstream media, folks.

[clip] O'REILLY: They're going to kill you, no matter what.

GUEST: No, we're going to win the war on terror, Bill. And we're going to win it, because America has always stood up for what counts, for what's right, and the values of human life, equal dignity, equal protection, the rights of women. These people don't care about any of those things. They're anathema to them. And we have to root them out, the same as we did fascism, and we did communism.

O'REILLY: All right—I'm for that!

GUEST: In the same way—do not—as we honor the dead as 9/11 approaches, let's also celebrate our living Bill of Rights, and give it vigor.

O'REILLY: All right. But, I don't give the Bill of Rights protection, or the Constitution protection, or the Geneva Convention, to people not in uniform, slaughtering—

GUEST: What about Mr. Padilla, the U.S. citizen?

O'REILLY: Well, that's a different game, but, to people slaughtering civilians. I don't give them any protection. I don't feel sorry for them. In fact, I probably would have ordered their execution, if I had the power. Counsel [ph], we thank you for coming in. We appreciate it.

Q: End of story! All right, Lyn. Just to give you a taste—.

LAROUCHE: Well, it sounds like Adolf Hitler has his imitators. You want to kill people before they're found guilty—even, just—that's what you're getting!

Q: No rights, folks! We have rights, here of course, but no one else does. You're the wrong color, the wrong religion, you're SOL [sh— outta luck].

LAROUCHE: Well, this is the old stuff, this is the same old stuff. This is same old thing the Nazis—

Q: It is the same old, same old. This was being batted around, and blared all over the radio waves in World War II.

LAROUCHE: Yeah, well, this is Nazi stuff—straight Nazi stuff. And we know it. That's one of the things that has some of the Republicans, with military specialties, like—well Senator [John] Warner, for example, extremely upset by this stuff. This goes against everything he stands for. And it's the kind of thing, that I guess gets his hackles up a bit. But, that's where you see some goodness in some of these politicians, who otherwise you think are rather ordinary, and opportunistic.

Q: Well, that's nice. Talk's cheap, look how they vote. They vote CAFTA, they vote NAFTA, they vote—. Vote after vote goes against the American, well, America's best interests.

LAROUCHE: Look, we've been doing that—. Most of our people, are, to one degree or another, guilty of this. They have played into that ideology. Now, it turns around and bites them. They find people who ran for office, who were voted for, because they didn't oppose that ideology. When they get into office, they continue to support it—not because they agree with it, but because they "went along to get along." And it comes down and bites us.

Q: That's called "selling out your constituents," in my book.

LAROUCHE: But the point is, that's what happens.

Q: Let's call it "idiotology" too, not ideology.

LAROUCHE: Well, whatever it is, the point is, is we have to realize that our people in general have been a little bit guilty themselves in this. And now, it comes and bites us.

Q: Look what happened in London. Look what happened in London—c'mon. Tony Blair—I mean, the bombing that killed 55, 60 people; I'm sorry, that's a tragedy, and they right away start blaring the trumpets, saying, "This is just like the Blitz in World War II."

LAROUCHE: Well, this is Blair. I mean, don't expect any morality from these guys! They don't care about life and death—I know these guys.

Q: They're "beast-men."

LAROUCHE: Yeah, they are! That's exactly what they are.

But, you know, I feel good about mankind. I know what mankind's capable of doing. I've been around for a little bit of time, and I've seen it. That's not what all people—

Q: William Rodriguez was on last night. He was 20 years, worked in the North World Trade Center Tower, in charge—his whole domain was one of the three stairways all the way to the top; man rescued people, lived right through the most hellish attack on America in our history; incredibly heroic American, just a wonderful human being. And yeah, you're right, they're out there. There're lots of them out there. But they're being brainwashed, duped, deceived, conned, and, well, prejudiced, almost around the clock, by the media.

LAROUCHE: Yeah, but—

Q: And I don't share—with all respect, my friend—I do not share your benign description of many of the top people in this government—at all. They may be nice guys, but they've been compromised, and they've sold out, and I call them whores. I do not like them, I think they should be thrown out after one term. I don't think we should allow them to set up fiefdoms, and carry on as they do. They're cons, they're criminals, they're pedophiles, they're homosexuals, they're deviants, they're crooks, in many cases—and I call them scum! And that's where we may have a little difference of opinion.

LAROUCHE: [laughs] Well, I'm more optimistic about mankind. I see—

Q: I didn't say "mankind." I said the people in the U.S. Senate and the Congress. I'm not talking about mankind.

LAROUCHE: People on the street, the same thing. There're good people—

Q: We're in trouble as a nation, Lyndon. You know that. You lived through the greatest epoch of our history.

LAROUCHE: Yeah, I know!

Q: So, how do we pull it out? We got a madman, a beast-man Cheney, and his cabal of neo-con Zionists, who would stop at nothing, to perpetuate their rape of the planet, which is exactly what's going on. Another 9/11 attack is due, it's imminent, everyone's waiting for it. What do we do, to stop it?

LAROUCHE: It could happen. It could happen: I'm doing the best I can.

Q: I know you are! You've been heroic about it. And your writing is brilliant. The contacts you have around the world are extraordinary. I can't even imagine your frustration when you go abroad, and talk to these people who look back, over across the Atlantic and say, "What the hell is going on with those people!? How could they have allowed their government to be taken over by lunatics? And beast-men?" What do you tell them, Lyn?

LAROUCHE: I tell them, that they've done the same thing themselves. That we were created as a nation, as a refuge for Europe, by Europeans, largely, who came here. And we became corrupt, too. The corruption is vast. It's all over the world.

I know this from history, and the struggle with great ideas by great people, has continued. We've lost most of the struggles, most of the time. We've won enough to justify keeping the struggle going.

Q: Oh, absolutely! I completely concur. You pointed out, in your outstanding article that I mentioned, as the bombings in London have given Tony Blair with his own Reichstag Fire incident—but, comparing it to the Blitz in World War II, c'mon! To me—

LAROUCHE: That's the propaganda. That's what they do.

Q: Yeah, it's truly amazing.

All right, we'll be back with the extraordinary American patriot, and statesman, Lyndon LaRouche, in just a couple of minutes. [commercial break]

Okay, welcome back. We're talking to Lyndon LaRouche about his alert, the "Guns of August." The most compelling evidence of this "Guns of August" plan, according to Lyndon LaRouche, and he emphasized same in discussions with colleagues—and he's talked about it tonight—is "the pattern of eyewitness reports of Cheney's state of mind. Cheney's living out an American version of Hitler in the bunker, lashing out at Republican Senators who have dared to resist his mad tirades, accusing anyone who fails to follows his orders, including senior members of the U.S. Senate, of being 'traitors and worse.'"

Is he losing it, or is this just who he has always been?

LAROUCHE: Well, this is what he is. He's this kind of personality. I guess, his wife picked him for that kind of personality, and married him! Picked him up out of the dump! And people said, "Okay, he's a good thug." It's like the guy, the Mafia boss hires a hit man. And they saw in Cheney the kind of personality that goes with a hit man, a corporate hit man.

Q: Who's pulling his strings? Who's pulling his strings, Lyndon?

LAROUCHE: Well, people like George Shultz, for example. The same people who gave you, our Governor of California! The same crowd.

Q: Gave him? Forced him down our throats!

LAROUCHE: Well, in a sense. We could have done better, I would say, if our people had been a little more alert to their own self-interests.

Q: California's still bankrupt, isn't it?

LAROUCHE: Well, and he helped do it! He and Enron! Enron was the big factor that bankrupted California.

Q: We've seen the pictures.

LAROUCHE: And he was the guy, Schwarzenegger was one of the people who was in on the bankrupting! Then, he ran for governor, on the basis of being the hero, against the governor [Gray Davis] who had capitulated, mistakenly, to this pressure from the Enron mafia, which is the Bush mafia. And now, here he is, and he's in a mess.

But, the point is, the damage is done: The largest single state, politically, in the United States, California, was taken out of the equation, effectively, by this operation, and now we're sitting without power, with our power system decaying as a result of this looting of it, by people like Enron. And the people who benefitted from Enron, that operation, George W. Bush and company, are sitting in the White House, running the country!

We Americans have to take some of the blame, for what we allowed to be done to us.

Q: I've thought about that for a long time. How much blame do we consign, or can we consign, to a general population which has literally been dumbed down, with great deliberation and intent, through the mainstream media, through the entertainment media, through the corrupted, despicable government school system now—how do we blame people who are basically incompetent? Isn't it almost like criticizing someone in the Special Olympics for not being able to compete normally?

LAROUCHE: No, it's not blaming them in the sense of trying to have them punished. They're punishing themselves already, by the mistakes they've made in what they voted for.

Q: Well, absolutely. It's a done deal!

LAROUCHE: Okay: So, the point is, why do they have to keep being dumb? They don't have to be dumb! But, the problem, they go into these little niches, these refuges, these fantasy lives, and they withdraw from trying to figure out what's being done to them.

Q: Well, they're so toxified by the food, and everything else, too.

LAROUCHE: That I know, I know it all—but the point is, we are in a fight. We've got to get our people back, and we've got to save them, even if they don't do what they should do all the time.

Q: What would FDR say, if he were sitting with us right now, in this conversation?

LAROUCHE: He'd probably would say the same thing. Because, you remember what his background was: Here he was, he was a descendant of Isaac Roosevelt, the founder of the Bank of New York, and the ally of the founder of our system, Alexander Hamilton, hmm? And he fought for it. Franklin Roosevelt represented that in his family tradition. He fought for it, when he was laid low with poliomyelitis, he built himself up, and studied the things that pertained to his family's legacy.

When he came to the Presidency, he brought to the Presidency a commitment to what the idea, a knowledgeable commitment of what this country was built to become. And tried to apply that, himself, to our situation.

Franklin Roosevelt saved civilization. He wasn't a perfect man. But he saved civilization, because, if he hadn't existed, if he hadn't resisted those forces that wanted a Nazi government here, as well as elsewhere—

Q: Some would say, we have it now.

LAROUCHE: Well, we've got a part of it. The people that hated him, the people that hate him today! Hate him for the same reason! It's like, they miss their dear old "Unser Adolf" whom Roosevelt helped eliminate.

But it was Roosevelt's intervention, his building up the U.S. economy, his giving morale back to the American people, which made it possible for other people in the world to come together with us, and save the world from the Hell that would have been here, if Hitler had prevailed.

And we turned against him—.

Q: Well, there's an argument to be made, by winning World War II, we gave the world 60 years of Soviet Bolshevik murders, corruption, catastrophe on an unknown scale around the world—

LAROUCHE: They gave us Churchill. Churchill was just as much a problem.

Q: Churchill was one of the biggest bastards of the last century, without a question.

LAROUCHE: He's the guy, who, when Roosevelt was dying, knew about the nuclear weapons. Japan had negotiated surrender already, through the Emperor—

Q: Oh yeah, I know.

LAROUCHE: And we postponed the war, in order to drop nuclear weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki for no good reason—and Truman knew it, and did it! So, Truman and Churchill, even though Churchill was out of office at that point, these guys, and the guys around them, are the biggest criminals of the period: Because they represented the power which dominated the world in the post-war period. Eisenhower, with his shortcomings, tried to save us. He probably did prevent us from getting into a nuclear war. Others have tried to save us.

But, the point is, we, by turning against Roosevelt, or allowing it to happen, allowing that tradition to be taken away, we plunged into this kind of horror we've gone through for the past years.

Now, we come to the time again: The system is cracking. We have the chance of taking our country back. We, an imperfect people, with highly imperfect leaders, have a chance to take our country back. Let's do it!

Q: That's been your message for years. No one's going to disagree with that.

By the way, for those of you who listen every night, forgive me, I'm going to read this one more time, because I think it's crucial in our attempt to understand history, which we are supposed to learn from. Here's a quote from Churchill—this is about World War II, and National Socialism, and the Nazis, and all the rest of it: "You must understand that this war is not against Hitler or National Socialism. It is against the strength of the German people, which is to be smashed, once and for all, regardless of whether it is in the hands of a Hitler, or a Jesuit priest." It's called genocide.

LAROUCHE: That is Churchill. Churchill was a sympathizer of Hitler, along with most of the leading rest of the British, and many of the people of Wall Street. They objected only at the point, that Hitler, reluctantly, under pressure from German generals, made a deal with the Soviet Union to attack westward first. And all these guys, in New York, like the grandfather of our incumbent President right now, who financed bringing Hitler into power, turned around, and said, "Oh! He's marching westward first! That we don't like!" And they tried to line up behind Roosevelt, and fight Hitler.

But, the minute that Roosevelt was dead, the same crowd went back to the same kind of policies which had attracted them to support of Hitler, when they were Hitler supporters—and that's our problem.

Q: About three minutes left, Lyn. What do you want to leave us with tonight? We all want to take the country back. We know we can't do it through the national election process any more. It doesn't work. Or, we've watched two elections now, basically stolen and manipulated. Local level—where do we have to start, right back at the grass roots?

LAROUCHE: In a sense. The problem is, the average person in the United States, the lower 80% of family-income brackets, has lost his sense of independence. He has a sense of how to nag politicians, how to protest, how to try to blackmail politicians into getting what he wants. But he doesn't have a sense of representative government, of himself or herself, as a part of the government.

Q: That's a very valid sense. It's correct!

LAROUCHE: Right. But, the point is—my contention is, we can take it back. But you have to be committed to doing that. Don't be in there with your little schtik. Be determined to take the country back, because, we come and we die: What are we leaving to the people who come after us? We complain about what was given to us by preceding generations. What are future generations going to say about us, when we had the opportunity?

I believe that right now, the nature of this crisis has given us the greatest opportunity in the entire post-war period to take our country back, and I think it can be done about now: Because we're in a crisis, and people know the government's incompetent. They know this problem. They will actually rally, however reluctantly, however sullenly, however much griping—they will rally to save themselves, and save this nation.

Q: All right. And anyone who'd like to call and get a free pamphlet, the latest pamphlet with Lyn's "Guns of August" press release and also other information as well, simply call 1-800-929-7566; that's Lyndon LaRouche's PAC, 1-800-929-7566. You receive free of charge that pamphlet with the essay, and other materials as well.

I hope you're right, I hope we have enough left in this country to rise up and do something, which really matters. Pull away from that remote control, stop eating the poison food, pay attention to the future. We don't want the future looking back at us, and saying, "Gee! You gave us our MTV, and what do we have now? Nothing!"

LAROUCHE: [laughs] Right. Right.

Q: Okay! August is a big one. A final comment from you—we have about 30 seconds.

LAROUCHE: I think that we need a good dose of optimism—my kind of optimism, fighting optimism. Not the idea that something's going to be given to us, but the chance we have to reach out and take it. And I think the time is now.

Q: Well said. It is, indeed. Thanks very much for making time to be with us here, again, Lyn. It's always a pleasure talking with you. Good night.

LAROUCHE: Thank you. Good night.